Western Martial Arts.

Admin Joined : 16 Aug 2007 Posts : 232

Hey Dave,

Something I've often meant to ask you but never thought on when we've been chatting.

How did you wind up spending so much time researching the western martial arts? (wrestling, purring, french kicking arts, staff etc). From what I can gather these arts and the guys who practice them have always been "minority" and never in the mainstream. They've also never been glamourous in the way that the eastern martial arts have been in the last fifty years so what put you on the trail of the "European" forms of combat?

Also, I know its a conversation we've had a few times but I think it's worth revisiting in the new company we have on the forum. You have taken wrestling as the basis of your grappling, french and cornish kicking arts for your striking with feet etc. What did you find in these older and more obscure arts that convinced you they were more compatible with real world combat than their eastern counterparts?

Not bashing the eastern arts at all as I know you were hugely influenced by Abbe/Warflield and you speak very highly of people like Mike Upham/Phil Milner etc.

all the best
Chris

Subject: Re: Western Martial Arts. Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:20 am

good question Chris.. thanks for asking..

To be honest I was never 'sucked in' as deeply into the oriental arts as many of the others around.

You have to remember that I was well into boxing and Olympic style wrestling whilst at school..

the tough guys round my way and nearly all the dooormen were either boxers and/or wrestlers.. I felt that this was the right path for the street.

When I discovered Judo and got my 1st belt I was allowed to do judo style sparring (randori) and I could beat most of the coloured belted students using (cheating??) wrestling moves.. they hadnt a clue... so I started right then thinking that no ONE art had it all and that tis supposed superior almost 'mystic' oriental art wasnt that hot..... mind you when I showed the wresting moves to the coloured belts (kyu grades) they ALL could beat me

John Warfield loved the old French styles of Savaux and Chausson, even some Savate, so I figured if it was good enough for John Warfield, it was more than good enough for me..

Then fate took a hand as it often does... I worked as a 'Gaff Lad' for Silcox/Sugdens Fairs for a while and they had Booth Fighters.. old pugilists and wrestlers.. these guys were tough with a capital 'T'.. sometimes local lads would take exception at Fair lads chatting up the local girls, and we would end up with a 60's style RUMBLE.. these booth fighters were fantastic..

one old wrestler (he was about 60 then) throw out a challenge in the booths and it was taken up by a local Judo champ... he was about 25 and fit.. the wrestler tore him a new arsehole, in about 30 seconds.. I was amazed.

also being part of the late 1960's weights scene, with simple bodybuilding comps and the old strength set stuff.. I met loads of wrestlers who used the weights... a lot of them made the oriental arts look a bit tame to be honest.

Catch Wrestling, Purring, Pugilism etc were REAL, no airy-fairy stuff, it was honest hard and real, and WORKED..
something as simple as the fact that all these old western kicking styles were done with some form of footwear on, made the bare foot kicking arts look less street worthy...

their attitudes made me curious.. I was getting sucked into the Oriental mystic unbeatable arts thing and had nearly started believing the Hype
but these old streetmen whose backgrounds were pugilism and grappling seemed to win every time, made me want more.
Plus in 1976/77 when I got my 2nd Dan from John Warfield he insisted I try other arts and methods.. so I did.
So I started a quest then.. and I'm still on it

And to be honest, although I accept the values of discipline and ettiquette, rigid training and so on.. the older western arts practitioners seemed just more.. "Sod it just get stuck in and batter the bugger" type.. less formality with more brutality I guess

thanks Chris mate.. keep 'em coming