Kicks to the knee?

Joined : 19 Jan 2008 Posts : 15

Hi John,

If this question has been asked and answered, feel free just to point me in that direction. I did do a search, and couldn't come up with anything.

So to the question: How effective do you feel kicks to the knee are in slowing down an attacker, or possibly even ending the fight?

Thanks for sharing your experience and expertise.

Best,

Mark

Joined : 24 Oct 2007 Posts : 56

I would be interested to hear the perspective of people that have used that in a real situation as to the effectiveness and damage done.

I have used a kick to the leg above the knee. I used it and was able to create enough space to get myself out of the situation. Given that I did not stick around, I don't know how effective it was beyond creating space or possibly taking away the will of the person to attack.

Admin Joined : 16 Aug 2007 Posts : 232

I consider an opponent to be like a car. Take away the driver (brain) the engine (heart) or the wheels (legs) and the car cannot move. The radio may work, the wipers may wipe but you have effectively rendered it immobile.

That said, when it comes to kicking at the knee there are a lot of variables to consider.

Where is it being launched from,
What's the intention behind it
What's the target on the knee (back, side, front)
What is the weapon being used (toe, instep, shin)

For example I'd never try a shot to the knee from the front. Thai thigh kicks and push kicks etc not withstanding. From the back coming through the knee with the shin can be great but then you might as well call that a sweep. With steel toe-caps you can punt the knee and get a really painful result but the daddy of them all is coming through the side of the knee with you straight on and the opponent at right angles. Practically guaranteed to force the guy into months of re-hab.

The problem is getting into a position to deliver. If you imaginehow diffcult it is to hit elbows because of the continuous movement of the limb it's almost as difficult to hit knees correctly. Also, you have to factor in that the most effective kicks come in at a line lower than the knee because anything higher greatly increases the possibility of you hitting the ground shortly afterwards.

In training I've done 'em all. In animal days I've pulled off low line kicks and in a real go I've used shin kicks. I have seen a great technique from Mickey Gould which is a knee and ankle joint destruction which looked horrible, effective and viable and could be termed a kick I suppose but I don't think I'd ever have the balls to use it!

Joined : 01 Sep 2007 Posts : 113

Firstly I am not one for recommending kicks to the knee unless its all you have got to give or the knee is the only target avaiable to strike.

Saying that a friend of mine kicked a persons knee cap out of place instantly disabling the man, it turned out that the lad had a problem with the knee joint and it was easy to pop out. I've seen many lads take hits to the legs and other than sweeping them off their feet damage was minimal. For a sound self defence techinque to be worth its salt it has to be a stopper. Why do you ask? is it something your working on, curiosity or workng experience? etc

Take good care mate
John

Joined : 19 Jan 2008 Posts : 15

Subject: Re: Kicks to the knee? Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:15 pm

Hi Mark,
You wrote:

Admin Joined : 13 Aug 2007 Posts : 177

I look at the 'Dreaded kick to the knee' along the same lines as the palm heel strike pushing the nose up into the brain. Rolling Eyes

Much easier to just crack him in the head and be done with it.

Jeff

Joined : 24 Oct 2007 Posts : 56

Joined : 19 Jan 2008 Posts : 15

Joined : 19 Jan 2008 Posts : 15

Age : 52 Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 40 Location : England

Interesting this -

I refereed Tournaments for years where as soon as a low kick hit the knee the fight would be stopped and penalties awarded. It was regarded alongside groin kicks as one of the most dangerous fouls. (As if to prove the point the fouled fighters would roll around in pain - although often only until their opponent had been penalised)

While in a sporting context these kicks are probably rightly excluded, this is obviously no proof of effectiveness and they cannot be relied on to stop a real fight!

GC

Joined : 01 Sep 2007 Posts : 113

Glad you have clarity mate, empirical experience is far better than guess work.
There are some great kickers out there but they are few and far between. And whilst wipping in a good solid roundhouse kick to the side of the knee joint for example might do the trick, a solid roundhouse to the jaw will definatly do it!but that is a high skill factor- so the hands being more easily accessable than most self defence tools they are the tools to hone to perfection getting in as much body weight as you can muster to the strike.
Take care mate
John

Admin Joined : 16 Aug 2007 Posts : 232

John,

Do you find that low line kicks can be used most effectively when dealing with someone who looks to have good hands. Not as the finisher but as the opener to the finisher.

For example, the guy who shapes up like a boxer gets a low line shin kick to make him drop his hands in preparation for the right hander to the jaw?

I'm in agreement with you that hands are king, just thinking about the need sometimes to have a little extra in the locker Smile

Joined : 01 Sep 2007 Posts : 113

Of course always train in that little extra and I know some good lads that use low-line kicks to good effect, What I look at chris is what is the best of the best technique to use- the answer is what you can use at the time to great effect. I practise various techniques and teach them, what works well for one person may not work for another. I like to focus on what can work for everyone regardless of gender size etc, So the best is the most direct and most powerful technique you can deliver without putting yourself at further risk.
What situation do you envisage when using a low-line kick?

Also remember you need distance to get a good solid kick in to an area that will give you time to get in another strike.

And thats another thing to remember which not much is spoken about- time when your involved in an altercation robbery,mugging, attack, etc. How much time do you really have to react to a situation?

How much time and distance do you need to get in a good low line strike/ punch combination before yout time to act runs out and your overwhelmed by your attacker/ attackers?

Do people actually train for that in a realistic way?

What about fear? how will that effect your reactions and how will that effect how much time you have to win through the initial attack?

I personally think that we have to understand ourselves and how we are going to react to a given situation in my own personel experence no two situations have ever been the same. My feelings, the time of day or night an attack or confrontation happens the weather, the place I've been in. Who I'm with wife kids alone friends. Etc, etc.

We all should all like our personel safety to be simple and direct and it can be as long as we understand ourselves and we can only do that through training. Remember self defence is for everyone young old infirm etc, etc.

So getting back to your original question do I think that using a Low line kick on someone who looks like they have good hands. If you have that information and you have the distance and your an accomplished and strong kicker then lead leg strike followed by a right hand left hook combo continueing as a barrage of punches if they recover should do the trick nicely.
Think about where your opponants head is going to be after you have applied the kick find the side of the jaw and go for the ko. If you don't ko your in a fight with an attacker that can looks like he has good hands! Exclamation

Take care chris and thanks for the question.

Age : 43 Joined : 30 Aug 2007 Posts : 10 Location : London

Hi guys, I agree with what’s been written up above and I am a hands are king person myself.

For a bit of fun training I have been training privately in savate and working with the instructor on boot kicks. Like Lito says I see them as a back up as I have a simple right cross palm and left hook palm off the fence as my basics.

I wear shoes or boots a lot of the time due to work and I have been training low kicks to the shin/knee area. I have a muay thai -boxing background, so have a good thai kick but have only used that once in a street fight and it's not one of my basics.

What I have found is that the savate kicks are a bit like using a hammer unlike a thai shin kick, which I would say is a bit like using a baseball bat. The savate kick goes straight out and hits with the tip of the shoe or heel and pops straight back. The idea is that you keep your balance.

I got myself in a situation recently and whilst I was moving to get past a bad guy, I popped him just below the knee and it dropped him. I don’t know what damage it did as I jumped over him and ran off but he was rolling around holding his shin. I was not aiming for his knee but I did hit the area I have been instructed to aim for. I basically took a pot shot at his general lower leg below the knee and it must have swept him.

A couple of things I have been thinking about since are that it would probably not have worked so well, if I had trainers on and also I hit the target bang on because I have just been drilling very basic kicks over and over and over. Again maybe a one off, don’t know but the guy I kicked looked fit etc.

Regards Richard