your best or prefered pre-emptive

Joined : 01 Sep 2007 Posts : 113

Hi People what is your best or most practised pre-emptive strike? And how often do you practise it! Have you ever used it for real? And uk residents only are you aware of Beckford v regina? (TEST CASE).
Maybe in the rest of the law abiding world they have a simular test case or system that dictates the law on pre-emption?
How do you feel about pre-emption do you think that it is the best option ?
I am intrigued to know how others feel about their own self defence, how far would you go to protect your family or your self? Idea

Take care
John

Age : 34 Joined : 30 Aug 2007 Posts : 5

my best pre-emptive is either palm heel strike or as for many years prior a right hook that i used numerous relatively sucessful as doorman.
i practice everyday for 20-30 minutes and i agree with pre-emption as the best option to end trouble before its really got started

as for defending myself and my loved ones whatever it takes deal with consequences later whatever they are .sounds tough i guess but its true some coked up little f**k etc aint worried about them so why should i at that moment

regards
andy

Joined : 19 Jan 2008 Posts : 15

My best pre-emptive would be either: a toe kick to the shin/knee (low so off their radar), or an open hand (palm heel to chin or web hand to throat) if they're open from the fence. I seem to be able to land these at will (so far Smile

)

I pretty much have to go with Bas Rutten on this and say that in California, the difficulty of proving intent etc would make me hesitant to strike first (unless there are multiples, my wife were present, or I suspected weapons).

Admin Joined : 16 Aug 2007 Posts : 232

Hi John,

It may sound trite but my favourite pre-emptive strike is training. Hours and hours of training. I spend that much time hitting, wrestling and rolling or talking about hitting, wrestling and rolling that it has become just another part of my life.

As a result, the kind of ego driven arguments or the insecurity that leads a lot of people to stand toe to toe when really they have other alternatives doesn't become a factor. If a guy gets a**e with me in Asda car-park cos his kids are driving him nuts and his missus has the hump then it's no big deal. If someone catches my eye in a bar and they look aggresive then they get a smile and a handshake rather than fear and aggression returned.

Primarily it works because MOST people don't really want to fight, they want to either LOOK as if they are going to fight or they want a victim. If you allow them to maintain their cover as a plastic hard-man and you project no insecurity or fear then they will largely jog on. (I'd bet big money that you've seen this time and time again John, I honestly think that the vast majority of fights take place not because of anger but because the aggressor thinks they can get away with it morally, physically and legally)

If I'm stuck and really can't avoid the scrap then the physical response if just blunt force trauma to the head with open hand.. very direct and simple with as much power as possible time and time again. From there it depends on the other variables how it finishes.

Subject: Re: your best or prefered pre-emptive Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:09 am

Hi John,
Hey my friend, you already know my answers, but here they are for those who don't and are interested... Wink

1. Palm hook and palm cross.
2. I practice them every day in one capacity or another.
3. Yes, I have used them for real.
4. N/A since I live in the U.S. and am not familiar with the case.
5. In most States in America, the following (excerpted from my "Three-Second Fighting" article) are the general legal guidelines of self-defense:
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First, as a rule of thumb, the right to self-defense by pre-emptive attack is permissible only when the defender reasonably believes that he is in apparent danger and an attack by the aggressor is imminent. It is essential that the defender be without fault himself in the situation. Understand that the relative size, strength, weight, age, and demeanor of the combatants are some of the factors considered in determining the reasonableness of this belief.

Second, the degree of force a defender may use in self-defense must be roughly equivalent to the perceived danger he is in. In other words, the defender should only use enough force which he honestly and reasonably believes to be necessary to ensure his own safety. Note that the presence of a weapon, multiple aggressors, and a disparity in size, strength, weight, and age are a few of the factors taken into consideration when gauging what degree of force is reasonable.

Third, the right to self-defense generally ends once the immediate threat no longer exists.
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6. In my opinion, preemption is THE best proactive physical option of
self-defense when all other options (i.e. awareness/assessment/action>avoidance, evasion, and deescalation)
have been exhausted or are not viable in the situation/circumstances you are facing.
7. I would absolutely do whatever is necessary to protect my family and myself from harm's way.

Take Care,
Lito
_________________
The essence of true love is purposeful effort.

True happiness is attained through fidelity to a worthy purpose.

Winners take chances and perceive pressure as a privilege.

Whatever you believe, it's true.

Age : 52 Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 40 Location : England

Hi John -

You know me well so this is primarily to add to the board. Chin jab from up close followed by head control and knee kick works well for me. Being old and grey I've found it's very easy to draw people into range by acting a little deaf ...

I'm aware of the case law on pre-emption, but stress that whatever the circumstances always remember afterwards that you were scared into taking action. Many have a habit of understating the risks afterwards (terribly British - don't like to make a fuss) and this can be misinterpreted as a lack of control or even naked aggression during interviews.

As to the amount of force I'd use - all the way if defending my loved ones, but enough to clear off quick if I'm on my own. 25 years ago I put someone on a life support machine for a few days. Even though it was done in legitimate self-defence I still remember the dread I felt about him not pulling through. It's easy to theorise about how you'd feel if someone dies - even in self-defence - but not quite as clear cut when you're in that situation. At least, not if you're human.

GC

Joined : 03 Sep 2007 Posts : 77

"are you aware of Beckford v regina? (TEST CASE)."

Err, nope....

I take it that this is something I need to be aware of - any offers of illumination anyone?

Cheers
Paul

Subject: Re: your best or prefered pre-emptive Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:49 pm

Hi GJEChamberlain,
You wrote:

Admin Joined : 16 Aug 2007 Posts : 232

Paul,

Beckford v R 1988

The case involved a police officer who shot a man who was later shown to be unarmed. In the course of the case the common law position on self defence was stated quite clearly.

In particular it was found that even if you are incorrect in your assumption about the level of threat you face as long as the basis for your action is honest and reasonable you can still claim you acted in self defence. With that in mind the action of the police officer was deemed self defence. It was also stated that there is no imperative to remove yourself from the threat.. no obligation to retreat.

cheers
Chris

Admin Joined : 13 Aug 2007 Posts : 177

Hook punch (left or right)

Slap

Age : 52 Joined : 07 Jan 2008 Posts : 40 Location : England

Hi Lito

Not something I want to really talk about! I'll send you a PM and you can use any points on the board you feel could help others.

GC

Joined : 24 Oct 2007 Posts : 56

My favorite pre-emptive would be a right hook or a straight right. I'm working on the slap. I practice them every day. I will say that I don't get ot the gym every day, but I at least go through the mechanics and visualize. I have had the need to use them. I think pre-emption is vital if your opponent has any skill, power, or real intent. I have not been in the position of protecting my family, thankfully, but my thoughts are that if they are in real danger, they should be protected absolutely and without hesitation.

Joined : 08 Apr 2008 Posts : 27 Location : Riverside ,CA

I like what Chris had to say, I like a left finger jab to the eye followed by a right hook. I never used it in a real go. I'll go as far as I have to to protect myself and my loved ones.

Joined : 27 Jan 2008 Posts : 2

My favourite pre emptive strike has to be a power slap which ive had many sucessfull knock outs with. Also the Pizza strike off the cup of tea fence, lol!

Joined : 01 Sep 2007 Posts : 113

As for the finger jab to the eye's followed by the right hook it is most important to understand where the jaw is going to be after the finger jab to the eyes as it might not be there, it could be covered by a flinch response far better to just hit the jaw with a right hook this takes away the possibility of failing with the right hook due to a reaction from your antagonist.
what do you think about the above comment on the finger jab to the eye's?
John