| Edge weapon discussion Please join in. |    |
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Coops
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 46
|  Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in.  Fri May 09, 2008 10:43 pm | |
| | DaveCollins wrote: | Anyone else seen Ray Floro's knife fighting stuff?
I've seen a few knife and anti-knife things and Floro's stuff seems pretty good.
His Universal Block seems very interesting too and very easy to integrate into empty-hand and knife situations. |
You know I have a particular interest in this stuff - can you enlarge on his universal block?
kristian, I agree with you when the weapon, whatever weapon, is used as a tool of intimidation - thrust into the face of the victim as a 'persuader.' It's the same with anythin which ups the anti, so to speak, and takes the fight away from the purely 'fisticuffs' level. However, by far the biggest problem is simply not knowing there is a knife in the game until it's been inside you a few times  . Of course, we're talking about the weapon being used inside the fight in that instance.
Coops |
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Dave Turton
Age : 60
Joined : 21 Aug 2007
Posts : 104
Location : Rotherham, South Yorkshire UK
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Fri May 09, 2008 10:55 pm | |
| | come on the next SDF knife/edged weapons defence course..maybe it will give another couple of percent of help.. |
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DaveCollins
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 36
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Sat May 10, 2008 4:38 am | |
| | Coops wrote: | | DaveCollins wrote: | Anyone else seen Ray Floro's knife fighting stuff?
I've seen a few knife and anti-knife things and Floro's stuff seems pretty good.
His Universal Block seems very interesting too and very easy to integrate into empty-hand and knife situations. |
You know I have a particular interest in this stuff - can you enlarge on his universal block?
Coops |
'Universal Block' - called 'universal' because it can be used empty-handed and in combination with the knife in an edge-in reverse grip as per Ray's system.
Assuming someone is right handed:
Right forearm is held across the body, parallel to the ground at about chin height - out in front of the body to the distance of the right upper arm.
Left forearm comes diagonally across the back of the right forearm crossing at about the wrist point and resting against the right forearm.
Text descriptions usually do no justice to techniques but if you adopt the position above it will give you an idea. Since the front right arm is reinforced by the rear arm it feels to be a very strong defensive position. With a little practice it is easy and 'instinctive' to get into since it is very close to a flinch reaction anyway.
It seems to provide a strong defensive position and also nicely 'collapses' into closer-in responses like the O'Neill, etc
If you play around with it you can quickly get a feel for the striking options with empty-hand. If you put a knife in reverse-grip in your right-hand you can see how it gives good offensive/defensive options with knife in hand.
Specifically empty-hand against the knife you can quickly get a feel for how it also facilitates the 'outer arm block' which Nick Hughes and Lee Morrison advocate (none of the trying to grab someone's wrist carry-on). Try it with someone determinedly trying to stab you in the abodomen with full force - the 'bracing' aspect seems more likely to stop the hard stab getting through than meeting the blow with just the back of both forearms.
It also transitions naturally into the wrap-up we trained with you Coops (and Lee Morrison advocates) either under or over-hand rather nicely and then striking to take the knifer out.
Have a play around with it against opposition next time you train, Coops.
If you wanto to know any more I'll try to find some vid of Floro doing it if poss.
Disclaimer: I am not promoting Floro's stuff as the be-all/end-all. In my commonsense - rather than Urban Ninja - opinion it looks handy and facilitates the commonality between what I have seen as the most workable systems (as noted above). I am not getting into one of those pathetic bitching sessions martial artists love so much and which puts the rest of us totally off martial artists and martial 'arts'. |
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Coops
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 46
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Sat May 10, 2008 7:10 am | |
| Thanks for the description. Obviously, if you manage to locate a clip that would be good, but I'll play with what you have explained and see what comes out of it.
Coops |
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DaveCollins
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 36
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Sat May 10, 2008 8:28 am | |
| | Coops wrote: | Thanks for the description. Obviously, if you manage to locate a clip that would be good, but I'll play with what you have explained and see what comes out of it.
Coops |
Can't find a clip of exactly the block, mate, but that's the best thing - have a play with it!
Here is a clip which will give you a flavour of where Floro is coming from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8AoywlwCB4&feature=related
PS: Found a pic. Go here: http://florofighting.com/
Left hand border, second pic down...obviously that's just a posed picture and the arms move around as required. |
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Coops
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 46
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Sun May 11, 2008 11:26 pm | |
| Thank's. I can pick up enough from that. It appears to me to be a 'default' position, but aimed at the defensive use of a knife. But it will work without so long as the user has sufficient aggressive drive.
Coops |
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DaveCollins
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 36
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Tue May 13, 2008 1:13 pm | |
| | Coops wrote: | Thank's. I can pick up enough from that. It appears to me to be a 'default' position, but aimed at the defensive use of a knife. But it will work without so long as the user has sufficient aggressive drive.
Coops |
It's not really a default position as such but comes into play as a 'cover' might.
It integrates with the knife but stands perfectly well on it's own.
I feel it gives a bit more space and resilience than a cover and thus gives a few more options. |
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john skillen
Joined : 01 Sep 2007
Posts : 113
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Thu May 15, 2008 12:07 pm | |
| Hi all just a thought!
Would it stop a complete deranged unstable lunatic from stabbing you in the back repeatidly or for that matter a machete wielding maniac rotaing it towards you like a helicoptor blade at full speed or someone that for whatever reason including no reason slips a shank into you when your not expecting it - because if it does I'm interested.
Take good care
John |
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DaveCollins
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 36
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 pm | |
| | john skillen wrote: | Hi all just a thought!
Would it stop a complete deranged unstable lunatic from stabbing you in the back repeatidly or for that matter a machete wielding maniac rotaing it towards you like a helicoptor blade at full speed or someone that for whatever reason including no reason slips a shank into you when your not expecting it - because if it does I'm interested.
Take good care
John |
That's what your Jedi mind tricks are for, mate. |
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john skillen
Joined : 01 Sep 2007
Posts : 113
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Tue May 20, 2008 8:03 am | |
|  these are not the droids your looking for.
Seriously though any knife fighting system has to have been thoroughly tested and I'm sure there is some good stuff out there. But from my own experiences you will be struggling to find a real live system that has everything or even enough to cover all eventualitys. I try looking for the common thread running through various systems or ways and find total awareness and quick thinking are the real answers to very dangerous situations
Take care
John |
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DaveCollins
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 36
| | Subject: Re: Edge weapon discussion Please join in. Tue May 20, 2008 8:41 am | |
| Indeed, John, but you're never going to find a system that covers all possible scenarios perfectly - other than increasing your connection with the Force, which is what I am doing, so I know the attack is coming before they do!
I've looked at a few options for knife defence - with Coops, Ron Evans, also checked out Kelly McCann's stuff, Lee Morrison's and Ray Floro's. What I intend to do is concentrate on the common principles that are most likely to work if you know you are faced with a knife.
If someone just creeps up behind you and stabs you then you should have felt the stirring in the Force or you're rubber ducked.... |
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