knife culture scotland

Joined : 01 Sep 2007 Posts : 113

Hi Alan could you enlighten us the extent of the knife culture in your country. I do know of some serious knife and sword use over the years. Obviously you also have a serious football related violence between two top clubs. Do knives etc, figure greatly in this violence or is a lot of the knife crime exaggerated. I have seen some horrific footage recently featuring the accident and emergency dept of Glasgow.
Take care
John

Subject: Re: knife culture scotland Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:00 am

Hi John

Firstly, the football violence is nowhere near as bad as the press make it out to be, these days it is mainly isolated groups of bigotted idiots, there are no large scale battles anymore like they we used have back in the 1970's.

Knife carry and knife attacks on the other hand do appear to be on the increase, new coverage reports a knife attack almost everyday and reported attacks of course are only the tip of the iceberg.

Knives are widely carried and used in the large housing estates and from there it spreads out to smaller more rural communities.

I grew up on the Easterhouse estate on the suburbs of Glasgow, that estate had a population of 55,000 people, there were almost no public ammenities and the police station was two wooden porta cabins (obviously no holding cells) so it was pretty hairy, by all accounts the main difference now is that those carrying and using knives are getting younger and fear the consequences much less than they did in the past.

I would say in the cities if you stick to town centers such as Glasgow and Edinburgh you wont see too much trouble but avoid the out skirts and larger housing estates.

As a side note, I was kid in Easterhouse when the famous singer Frankie Vaughon came to town to promote an amnesty and get the gangs to give up their weapons.
There was a large area of waste ground (now a shopping centre) and a row of three large dustbins, it was lined by police officers, all of the gang members were allowed to walk in and bin their tools without fear of arrest, those bins were filled with swords, cleavers, knives and coshes but do you know in those days the gangs did not go around attacking old ladies for their pension, they mainly fought between themselves and the gang members were in their late teens or twenties not the twelve and thirteen year olds we get now.

Anyway I'm rambling, I hope that helps.

Take care.
Alan

Joined : 08 Feb 2008 Posts : 36

As a general comment, one of the measures of "civilization" is how much the individual citizen needs to know about defending him / herself. By this measure I don't know of any country that isn't becoming less civilized. Additionally, as civilization is achieved by mutual agreement (i.e. the social contract), I don't know any way to reverse the trend. In this I'm not as concerned for me as for my children and my grandchildren that will have to live in that world.

Subject: Re: knife culture scotland Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:49 pm

I get the impression that we know have a generation of youths who come from a generation of parents that grew up on benefits, running the streets and getting into trouble so it's quite natural for their kids to follow the same path, in this way the problem grows like the roots of a tree spreading wider and deeper with each generation.

Alan

Subject: Re: knife culture scotland Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:21 am

Another note on this would be that my only experience of facing a live blade was Ahem, cough years ago in school and I kicked the knife from the other boys hand, I would not advocate this course of action but I was young, I did'nt know anything else and it worked, when the knife was lost my attacker backed off probably because his plan had gone down the tubes and bouyed my successful disarm I was giving it large, which I now know as posturing.

Alan

Subject: Re: knife culture scotland Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:38 am

Related article and video clip

This area of Glasgow is a S@#t hole and only five minute from the famous Barlinnie prison.

Alan

Joined : 30 Aug 2007 Posts : 10

From speaking to friends in the force There is at least one knife attack in Edinburgh every day. These are not all news related items.
The Meadows in Edinburgh is a hot spot. It is only recently that they started to report incidents in the press warning people due to incidents in the day.
(The reason they were not reported before I believe were to stop copy cats)

I have been discussing this just of late with people of all ages and it seems that a lot of these attacks are now done with the Knifes out ready to go.
(has any one any comment on this)
This is disturbing, in that it seems to be a different mind set from the attackers, that they are wanting any excuse to use it.
If attacks are on the increase or not is hard to tell as official figures say they are on the decrease. Again the policeman on the street says this is not the case and they would not go out on the street with out there stab vest.

Dave McC

Joined : 30 Aug 2007 Posts : 10

According to the Evening news last night.
Under Scots law, there is no mandatory jail sentence for carrying a knife in public. But the previous Labour-Liberal Democrat Scottish Executive increased the maximum penalty for carrying a knife from two years to four years' imprisonment.

Two years ago, the Lord Advocate issued guidelines which meant people found carrying knives would be refused police bail and, once they got to court, if they had any previous convictions involving knives, prosecutors would oppose any move to release them on bail.

Nationally, Prime Minister Gordon Brown stressed "it is completely unacceptable to carry a knife".

CHILLING FIGURES
MORE than 600 people were hospitalised with stabbing injuries in the space of five years in the Lothians, according to latest figures.

It means an average of more than two victims a week are admitted to accident and emergency at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary or St John's suffering injuries from attacks with a "sharp object".

That number has fallen as the decade has gone on, with 141 people being admitted in 2001/02, falling to 110 in 05/06. But recorded possession of knives has soared by 70 per cent in the last three years, with 465 cases in the last year.

A police spokesman said: "In Edinburgh, the number of crimes involving a knife has fallen since 2004 and, over the same period, there has been a rise in the numbers caught in possession of a knife.

Subject: Re: knife culture scotland Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:06 am

Admin Joined : 16 Aug 2007 Posts : 232

Joined : 01 Sep 2007 Posts : 113

A friend of mine from scotland sent me this article thought you moght like to read it.

This article was printed as a reaction to a young 24 year old mother in the Southside of Glasgow being filmed threatening her neighbor with a Samurai Sword in one hand, a large Kitchen Knife in the other and a dagger tucked into her jeans as her 6 yr old and 2 yr old looked on!

Figures published last month showed nearly 300 crimes involving lethal weapons committed over one week in Scotland.

The rate of knife crimes - including murders and serious assaults - stands at a staggering 15,000 a year.

The findings, which equate to 40 knife incidents every day, were based on every blade crime committed in Scotland during a seven-day period.

The study showed a total of 280 blade offences, with Scotland's largest police force, Strathclyde, suffering the highest incidence with 227.

Of these, 103 were charges of possessing a knife - but 124 were on a sliding scale of violence and included murder involving a samurai sword. Other crimes involving knives included 13 attempted murders, 51 serious assaults and 59 simple assaults.

Knife crime represented nearly a sixth of all the 798 violent crimes committed over the week.

The latest statistics show that more than half of all murders committed in the Strathclyde force area involve knives.

The figures indicate that, of the 73 murders reported in Strathclyde between 2006 and 2007, 40 involved a knife - that's 55 per cent of all killings.

Of 380 attempted murders, 208 involved a knife, while a third of the 4050 serious assaults involved a blade.
pale

Rates of murder with a knife in Scotland are 3.5 times higher than in England and Wales. Last month, as part of Strathclyde Police's Campaign Against Violence, officers seized thousands of knives and other weapons from the Stuff shop in Glasgow city centre.

The Scottish government announced they were considering a licensing scheme for knife dealers, which would include records of a customer's age and identity.

The Violence Reduction Unit, set up by Strathclyde Police in 2005 but now a Scotland-wide body, was behind changes to bail laws.

Now anyone caught for the second time with a knife is opposed bail in a move which has resulted in a 100 per cent increase per month in those on remand for knife possession.

Detective Chief Superintendent John Carnochan, head of the VRU, said: "It's not easy but knife crime is a big problem.

"We do need to concentrate on gangs and violence and alcohol, which is inextricably linked to the problem in Scotland, but we should not be afraid to say it will take a generation to fix."

Be safe guys and do stay aware as awareness and quick thinking action is the key to safety and your chances of winning in a serious confrontation.
John Skillen

Subject: Re: knife culture scotland Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:50 pm

During operation blade a few years ago which was a six month campaign to get knives off the streets in strahclyde one shop "Victor Morris" on Argyle street in the city centre sold more knives in one month than the police collected in six months, what chance have the police got of ever getting control of the situation.

Alan

BTW, Victor Morris claimed that B&Q ( a large DIY chain) sold more knives than he does.

Joined : 01 Sep 2007 Posts : 113

We all know its not knives that hurt people - its people! but selling combat knives and utility knives over a certain length just increases the danger. truth is those that want to use a blade of some form for criminal purposes will just make them. What would be good is a bigger detterant and the complete ban of combat knives to the general public.
John

Joined : 30 Aug 2007 Posts : 10

"What would be good is a bigger deterrent and the complete ban of combat knives to the general public”.

John I have to disagree with you on this point and as writing I can see flaws my self in my thinking and questions already coming from other members.
You hit the nail on the head though it is not the Knife it is the person.
My personal thoughts are, if you banned “combat knives” more people would want them.
Also are many combats knifes actually used in crimes.
I believe from speaking to friends who are in the police and others at courses that it is still mainly the kitchen Knife that is used in all shapes sizes and forms.
Now I have no evidence from my next point but it would be easy to get rid of one of them other than a good combat knife which had just cost £x. more so why use one.

Another question I ask my self and I see others saying the same, why have a fancy knife..
In my trade we have several types of Knifes industrial mainly to do certain jobs.
That what a lot of these Knifes are made for to do a certain job, and a lot of traders out door people carry them for that point.
On a recent trip to Norway I was staggered to see Junior Knifes for sale.
For the year 8 upwards being sold in sports shops.
They certainly did not see this as a problem.

Now Norwegians are great out door people.
I asked straight away do you have Knife crime.
The answer was no not Norwegians but times have changed.
I said what you mean.
The answer was “we now take in a lot of outsider’s to our country”.
Any how just some thoughts.

Dave McC

Subject: Re: knife culture scotland Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:08 pm

Dave

I hear what you are saying but remember there are a lot of cheap poor quality folders out there now and you can pick them up at marets and car boot sales for next to nothing but they are just as deadly as a Emerson or the like.

Alan