Training "Realistically"

Subject: Training "Realistically" Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:34 am

Hi Everyone,
Self-protection/street fighting training in a controlled environment, how do you do it realistically yet safely? Should you use protective equipment or not? Specifically, is headgear prudent to use or does it instill a false sense of security which produces bad habits? How about body protectors, groin cups, elbow pads, knee pads, shin pads? Should you use them? What's the minimum? What's the maximum? How about full-on FIST/RedMan body protective suits? Good? Bad? How much contact should be employed to make training realistic? Full-contact, semi-contact, light-contact, or a mix of the three?

What about the use of training equipment such as Thai pads, focus mitts, body shields, heavy bags, BOB mannequins, double-end balls, etc; can you use these pieces to conduct realistic training which simulate/emulate reality?

Now, I usually give my two cents right after I ask a question(s), but this time around, I'd like to hear from other members first before I share my two cents. I'm hoping to stimulate some good discussion with this salient topic...

Everyone's opinion/viewpoints count and are welcome irregardless of training and experience. I'm really curious as to what others think/believe because I'm always looking to learn and/or improve what I do. I bet I'm not the only one who feels this way. Wink

I'm looking forward to your responses...

Take Care,
Lito
_________________
The essence of true love is purposeful effort.

True happiness is attained through fidelity to a worthy purpose.

Winners take chances and perceive pressure as a privilege.

Whatever you believe, it's true.

Subject: Re: Training "Realistically" Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:52 pm

Hi Lito

Subject: Re: Training "Realistically" Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:19 am

Hi Alan,
Great post with salient points my friend! Thank you!

Alrighty, since Alan is the only one thus far to share his thoughts, here are some of mine to hopefully kick-start this thread into action (points listed in no particular order):
1. I advocate the use of protective equipment and realistic contact.
2. I don't believe in sportive sparring. I believe in the "principle of purpose and specificity." The training fights/drills I conduct are real-life scenario-based with the accompanying pre-fight verbal/physical aspects incorporated and the post-fight strategies/tactics discussed afterwards. In all aspects, I advocate training in a manner that as closely as possible, simulates/mimics real-world situations/conditions. I train the way I need to/want to fight for the streets...
3. I wholeheartedly believe in preemptive and asymmetrical training (spending the majority of training time in this area). However, as back-up for "support system" purposes (because "even monkeys fall out of trees" occasionally), I also spend time incorporating objective-driven symmetrical training with "street" purpose.
4. I overcome the sportive "winner/loser" mindset/ego dilemma in training fights/competitive drills by limiting time durations (from five to 30 seconds) and switching opponents during phase transitions (i.e stand-up/free-movement, clinch, ground fighting).
5. I'm all about training with as high intensity as possible (which synergistically corresponds to the low time durations I advocate) to develop explosive, anaerobic conditioning first and foremost as this simulates real-world personal combat conditions THEN muscular/cardiovascular endurance secondarily, for physical and mental conditioning to prepare for a fight that degenerates into a give-and-take/back-and-forth match fight.
6. As far as contact is concern during training fights, my general philosophy is the shorter the duration, the harder the contact.
7. I also employ restrictive/limited, objective-driven training fights/drills to hone specific components/aspects of personal combat.
8. In regards to asymmetrical training, I employ a pad-holder/protective gear wearer (using Thai pads, punch mitts, body shields and full body suits, like FIST or Bulletman, when able) to train all-out preemptive striking and follow-up barraging in the free-movement stand-up, clinch, and ground fighting phases.
9. When it comes to "support system" symmetrical training with strikes, I primarily employ the muay Thai philosophy/regimen of sparring with light/moderate contact to primarily hone timing and accuracy and going as hard as possible with pad-holder/wearer "sparring" using Thai pads/punch mitts/body shields to primarily work power, speed, and realistic flow.
10. In terms of "support system" symmetrical grappling/ground fighting training, I usually go all-out with the pure grappling aspects and employ light-to-moderate contact with the ground striking aspects.

Okay fellow members, c'mon now, your turn. Please don't be shy. I'm really interested in reading others' thoughts and insights. I'm always lookin' to learn and improve too you know... Smile

Take Care,
Lito
_________________
The essence of true love is purposeful effort.

True happiness is attained through fidelity to a worthy purpose.

Winners take chances and perceive pressure as a privilege.

Whatever you believe, it's true.

Subject: Re: Training "Realistically" Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:36 pm

Hi Lito

Subject: Re: Training "Realistically" Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:10 pm

Hi Alan,
Regarding biting and hair pulling, yes I did implement the former, but not the latter, in scenario-based training fights but on a limited, time-to-time basis. When it came to biting, I, too, only implemented it when training with guys I knew well and trusted. When we did so, I had everyone wear several layers of clothing topped off with sweat shirts. I did this so we could really sink our teeth into the bites and "tear" with gusto. In regards to hair pulling, I didn't really have a chance to incorporate this into the training fights mainly because all the guys I trained with, including myself, have short or no hair, so there was no hair to grab a hold of and pull. I actually keep my hair short for that reason and for my job too.

Oh, along the same tangent, I have also incorporated spitting, dry spitting to be exact, into training fights. To clarify something, I would only incorporate biting and spitting when I conducted light-to-moderate contact training fights. When we had all-out, full-contact Animal Day training fights, we wore motorcycle helmets as head gear, so these particular tactics were not viable ones to incorporate in those instances.

Take Care,
Lito
_________________
The essence of true love is purposeful effort.

True happiness is attained through fidelity to a worthy purpose.

Winners take chances and perceive pressure as a privilege.

Whatever you believe, it's true.

Subject: Re: Training "Realistically" Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:25 pm

Totaly agree on the hair pulling, fortunately we have had guys with longer hair and found it useful for moving his head, with the biting we used it in all out ground fight practise without the extra clothing, on one occaission I had my teeth in one guys finger when he tried to fish hook me, he should have tapped but didn't so I ended up tasting his blood, not pleasant and I wasn't too happy with him for being silly.

Alan

Joined : 08 Apr 2008 Posts : 27 Location : Riverside ,CA

We have heavy bags, to help develop power. We use focus mitts and thai pads for accuracy and to help develop muscle memory in combos. We use fist helmets for light contact and full out eye strikes. We also have a couple of tough guy helmets. We used Garth Bernard's instructions on how to make them and feel that they are fantastic. We use it for full out scenario training. The aggressor wears the helmet with a body shield on and 16 once gloves. The good guy has a face saver and some small digit gloves and go through a scenario making it as real as possible.

Joined : 11 Apr 2008 Posts : 25 Location : South Wales, UK

Just to add to this, I've found its important to have a regular training partner who you can trust and who knows when and how to react. Iits very difficult to go more full on with someone who only occassionally trains with you and who doesnt know your movements, power delivery etc

The safety of your partner is paramount, so take it step by step and you will find that the training intensity increases naturally, without trying to force a certain scenario. This certainly helped me, as I trained predominantly with my brother.

Take Care
Al

Joined : 08 Nov 2007 Posts : 10

How do you do it realistically if you do not have a good self protection club around?

Best regards,

Kobayashi

Subject: Re: Training "Realistically" Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:08 am

Hi Kobayashi,
That's a very open-ended question. With that, here are a few general thoughts and recommendations.

1. Find at least one or two "good" training partners. "Good" means lots of things. Here are some to consider: trustworthy, reliable, like-minded, physically coordinated/athletic, intellectually insightful/capable, diligent, discplined, etc. Hopefully, you have these qualities yourself to give back to them.

2. Take advantage of the resources you have at your disposal (such as instructional books, videos, message boards, etc) to learn from and create realistic training regimens.

3. Don't get caught up in too much "paralysis by analysis." Plan as conscientiously as you can then get to it; train diligently and consistently. Let the feedback from physical training take precedence over intellectual meanderings. Don't let intellectual speculations and deliberations take away from hard training.

4. If you can't find any "good" training partners and can only train solo then 1) train your pre-fight skills with lots of imagination and visualization, 2) develop one or two accurate and powerful preemptive strikes with some kind of action trigger (be it verbal, non-verbal, question, single word, physical gesture, etc) through fanatical repetition, and 3) train your fight skills asymmetrically and anaerobically as rigorously and religiously as you can. The TABATA protocol is great for this and can be used for stand-up, clinch, and ground fighting solo training regimens. Always have a "constant offensive pressure and relentless attack" mentality and physicality in all you do.

Hope this helps you out...

Take Care,
Lito
_________________
The essence of true love is purposeful effort.

True happiness is attained through fidelity to a worthy purpose.

Winners take chances and perceive pressure as a privilege.

Whatever you believe, it's true.

Joined : 08 Nov 2007 Posts : 10

Thanks Lito

I have tried out at every club that claims to offer self protection within an hours drive from home. Unfortunately none of these clubs have lived up to my expectations.

I have tried to find some training partners to practice real self protection, but I haven’t found any one that’s willing to train this way. So, lately I have trained in boxing, bjj and mma and then practiced pre-fight skills on my own. I know it’s not the best option, but at least that gives me some good training and a good support system. What do you think?

Lito, I just have to say that I’m very grateful for all the advice you give (for free). You are always humble and the answers you give are always intelligent and easy to understand (event for a Norwegian).

Thank you!

Best regards,

Kobayashi

Subject: Re: Training "Realistically" Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:30 am

Hi Again Kobayashi,
You're welcome; glad to be of help. Thank you too for your kind words.

Hope all is well with you and your family.

Take Care,
Lito
_________________
The essence of true love is purposeful effort.

True happiness is attained through fidelity to a worthy purpose.

Winners take chances and perceive pressure as a privilege.

Whatever you believe, it's true.

Subject: Re: Training "Realistically" Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:35 am

I think training realistically is mostly about training to the extent that you are out of your comfort zone and almost forcing yourself into a axious psychological mindset. This could trained into physical method of reality training. I now try to train this way even in the gym as it is a good way of improving. I have done courses in dealing with aggression but they simply do not deal with the psychological element enough. To me this is not realistic.